“Do you ask me, is Mary willing to assist you? Does she really take an interest in your welfare? Or is she so much absorbed by the fruitation of God as to be indifferent to our miseries? “Can a woman forget her infant so as not to have pity on the fruit of her womb”? (Isaiah 49:15), Even so Mary will not forget us” “Faith of our Fathers, By Cardinal James Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, page 225, 1893 edition.
Let’s see what Isaiah really says:
Isaiah 49:15 “Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? YEA, they may forget, Yet I will not forget thee“
“God has entrusted the keys and treasures of heaven to Mary.” Thomas Aquinas
“Holy Scripture was written to Mary, about Mary, and on account of Mary.” St. Bernard
“No one ever finds Christ but with and through Mary. Whoever seeks Christ apart from Mary seeks Him in vain.” St. Bonaventure
“What will it cost you, oh Mary, to hear our prayer? What will it cost you to save us? Has not Jesus placed in your hands all the treasures of His grace and mercy? You sit crowned Queen at the right hand of your son: your dominion reaches as far as the heavens and to you are subject the earth and all creatures dwelling thereon. Your dominion reaches even down into the abyss of hell, and you alone, oh Mary, save us from the hands of Satan.” Pope Pius Xl
“Mary, not one of thy devout servants has ever perished: may I, too, Be saved!” Pope Benedict XV
“O Mary Mother of Mercy and Refuge of Sinners! We beseech thee to look with pitying eyes on poor heretics and schismatic’s. Do thou, who art the Seat of Wisdom, enlighten the minds wretchedly enfolded in the darkness of ignorance and sin, that they may clearly recognize the Holy, Catholic, Roman Church to be the only true Church of Jesus Christ, outside of which neither sanctity nor salvation can be found. Call them to the unity of the one fold, granting them the grace to believe every truth of our holy faith and to submit themselves to the Supreme Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth, that, thus being united with us by the sweet chains of charity, there may soon be but one fold under one and the same Shepherd; and may we all thus, O Glorious Virgin, exultantly sing forever: ‘Rejoice, O Virgin Mary! Thou alone hast destroyed all heresies in the whole world!’ Amen.” (Pope Pius XII, The Raccolta, Benzinger Brothers, Boston, 1957, No. 626).
May 7, 1997 (David W. Cloud, Fundamental Baptist News Service, 1701 Harns Rd., Oak Harbor, WA 98277) – On May 7 Pope John Paul II dedicated his general audience to “the Virgin Mary” and urged all Christians to accept Mary as their mother. He noted the words spoken by Jesus on the cross to Mary and to John–“Woman, behold thy son!” and “Behold thy mother!” (John 19:26,27), and he claimed that in this statement “IT IS POSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND THE AUTHENTIC MEANING OF MARIAN WORSHIP in the ecclesial community … which furthermore is based on the will of Christ” (Vatican Information Service, May 7, 1997).
John Paul II underlined that “the history of Christian piety teaches that MARY IS THE PATH THAT LEADS TO CHRIST, and that filial devotion to her does not at all diminish intimacy with Jesus, but rather, it increases it and leads it to very high levels of perfection.” He concluded by asking all Christians “to make room (for Mary) in their daily lives, ACKNOWLEDGING HER PROVIDENTIAL ROLE IN THE PATH OF SALVATION” (Ibid.).
This page was copied and pasted by permission from remnantofgod.org
6 responses to “Quotes of Popes Declaring Mary Worthy of Worship”
Just to provide some clarifications here, for the first quotation, Isaiah was talking about God, not Mary. Nevertheless, as Mary is the spiritual Mother of all Christians (another topic entirely), it very much works for the question of a mother forgetting her child. This does not equate Mary to God.
As for what Aquinas said, we see Jesus saying something about “keys” being entrusted to Peter in Matthew 16, so I don’t think that necessarily entails worship. Obviously, we don’t mean the same thing in both cases. But that does not elevate her to godhood. It’s not as if she can create grace.
As for the St. Bernard quote… I want to see the context before I can speak on it.
We come to Christ through people all the time. In 1 Corinthians 3:9, Paul says, “For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.” Paul elsewhere speaks of us being called to impart grace to others. (Ephesians 4:29) The doctrine that grace comes through her by no means suggests grace comes from her.
A lot of these titles, such as “Refuse of Sinners” reference her role as an intercessor. Intercession for others in the Church is biblically sanctioned, much more so the prayers of the righteous. (James 5:16)
As for the phrase “Marian worship”… I see why that might trouble you. Any chance you know the exact name of the document where it says that? I honestly suspect it’s a mistranslation. “Worship” didn’t always mean latria (the honor due to God alone). What it used to mean is “worth-honor”. Hence people used to address kings and nobles (I think) as “Your Worship”. So, I imagine a better translation would be “Marian devotion”.
The bottom line is this: Mary is a creature, infinitely less than the Creator. However, she is the greatest and most powerful creature God ever made.
Also, about the title… most of these aren’t Popes.
Thank you for your reply. I truly appreciate it. Mary is, of course, the earthly mother of Jesus Christ. This much cannot be argued against. She was certainly blessed beyond all women in that she was chosen to birth our Saviour.
That said, she is a mere human being. As such she deserves no specific act of worship as it is defined in the Bible. Our Lord makes it clear what worship is. One form of worship is bowing before, and praying to, statues.
Exodus 20:4-6 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.”
It is no surprise then, that the Vatican has erased Commandment #2 so as to sanction prayers to statues. The Catholic 10 Commandments are a rewrite of the Biblical 10 Commandments. In the Catholic version, Commandment #2 is totally erased, and Commandment #10 is split into two. The enemy of souls needs people to bow before statues and pray to dead human beings because he knows that our Lord declared that bowing to statues is, in fact, a form of worship. Please notice what was said during the time of Daniel.
Daniel 3:4-7 “Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages, That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye FALL DOWN AND WORSHIP the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: And whoso FALLETH NOT DOWN AND WORSHIPPETH shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace. Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, FELL DOWN AND WORSHIPPED the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.”
Please notice what is said about the three worthies following the dedication of the statue.
Daniel 3:14-18 “Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, do not ye serve my gods, nor WORSHIP THE GOLDEN IMAGE which I have set up? Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye FALL DOWN AND WORSHIP the image which I have made; well: but IF YE WORSHIP NOT, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands? Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor WORSHIP THE GOLDEN IMAGE which thou hast set up.”
Of all the people in the land of the king, only Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego refused to bow down to the image/statue. Bowing to the statue is presented to us to be equal to worship. To confirm that these three men of God were making the righteous choice in their refusal to bow to the image/statue, we see the following …
Daniel 3:23-27 “And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire. And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king’s counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.”
Our Saviour confirmed that these three men made the right choice to not bow before the statue because to do so would show worship to the statue and the man who built it. While everyone else bowed in worship, the men of God did not.
So, when people bow before religious figures (dead humans) they are, in fact, displaying worship as it is defined in the Word of God. Not to mention that it is a direct violation of Commandment #2. Please bear in mind that God defined what sin is within His Word.
1 John 3:4 “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”
To break any of the Commandments is to be in sin. Moreover, to break one Commandment is to break them all.
James 2:10 “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
I have a video on this exact topic if you have time to watch it. It is a short video, only a couple minutes. For convenience, here is a link to it … https://youtu.be/7-rzsTt-Cvc
Another point to make is that Scripture does not say anywhere that Mary is an intercessor between God and man. This is a position which belongs to Jesus Christ, not Mary.
1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”
Nowhere in Scripture does God sanction any form of special reverence of Mary or any other human being. Our Lord speaks directly against such things as giving prayers and special honors to mere humans is something only pagans did. Mary was a sinful human being like the rest of us. If she were sinless and perfect as the Vatican declares, then she would not have proclaimed Jesus to be her Saviour. Someone who is sinless needs no Saviour.
Luke 1:46-48 “And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.”
Yes, verse 48 says that all generations will call her blessed. And no Christian has any problems calling her blessed. Clearly, she was. However, that does not mean God sanctioned prayers to her or any sort of special reverence toward her. The verse is simply stating the fact that she is blessed.
Not to mention that Mary is awaiting the first resurrection along with the rest of those who have gone to Christ filled graves.
Luke 14:14 “And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.”
John 5:29 “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
Acts 24:15 “And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.”
It is no question that Mary will find herself going to Heaven at the resurrection of the just, but she is not in Heaven at the moment. Rather than writing it all out here, please see this video of mine which speak on the state of the dead … https://youtu.be/vY9zlHEpN9g
The point is that Mary cannot be an intercessor because she is dead and will not awake until she is resurrected on the day of our dear Lord’s glorious return. Please also take into consideration that Jesus teaches us to make no repetitive prayers.
Matthew 6:7 “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”
And yet, the Vatican leadership has taught billions to make repetitive prayers such as the Rosary and hail Mary.
Though many of the quotes are not directly from the mouths of pope’s, again, their silence and refusal to say that those quotes are irrelevant or in some other way not part official church belief is tantamount to them saying it themselves.
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I apologize … I forgot to mention one more thing on giving special reverence to Mary. There is one instance in the Bible where someone tried to give this special honor to Mary …
Luke 11:27 “And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, BLESSED IS THE WOMB THAT BARE THEE, AND THE PAPS WHICH THOU HAST SUCKED.”
But notice the response of Jesus Christ. He corrects the woman who attempted to give His earthly mother reverence!
Luke 11:28 “But he said, Yea RATHER, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”
In the only instance in the entirety of Scripture where someone tried to lift up Mary in a devoted way, Jesus puts it down.
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Thanks for your reply! There’s a lot here to get through. I agree she deserves no act of worship, if what you mean by that is the honor due to God alone.
About Exodus 20:4-6, this obviously does not condemn making statues under any circumstances or even for religious purposes, since elsewhere we see that the symbols of two cherubim were on the Ark of the Covenant and God commanded Moses to make a pole with a golden snake. Most Protestants/evangelicals (whichever you prefer to be called) are in favor of nativity scenes. I think the meaning of this verse is clearer in context of the previous two verses: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.” So by bow down and serve, what it means is serve in the place of God.
Besides, Catholics don’t “bow down and serve” statues, any more than you would be worshipping a close friend by putting a photo of him or her prominently on a wall. Statues are inanimate objects, so praying to them would be absurd. What statues do is direct one’s attention to those whom the statues symbolize.
As for the “hiding” of the 2nd commandment, that exact list dates back at least to St. Augustine, but there are fourteen imperative statements in that passage, so it has to be shortened. Since the first two in your list say basically the same thing—“Worship God alone”—they are grouped together. Catholics typically go more by the list in Deuteronomy 5:6-21, where the condemnation of coveting one’s neighbor’s wife and goods are more clearly separate, “Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor’s.” Besides, there is a significant difference between coveting a wife and coveting a house, since the former relates to lustfulness, and the wife cannot be considered en par with “goods”.
I agree about the image of Nebuchadnezzar, but Nebuchadnezzar was seeking to put himself in the place of God, along with possibly his statue. Bowing in and of itself is not worship. After all, in other cultures, people have bowed to kings, emperors, and even their elders. So, if it is not wrong to bow to those living on earth as a sign of respect, I don’t see how it should be a sin to bow to those in heaven who, though their bodies may be dead, are in fact more alive, spiritually speaking, than we.
I already agree it is wrong to break any commandment, so I think there is no need!
As for the “mediator” thing in 1 Timothy 2:5, I see why you would bring that up. If Paul had really wanted to say “one” as oppose to any other, he would have probably written “monos” in 1 Timothy 2:5. Instead, he uses “heis”, which means “first” or “primary” and does not denote something exclusive. In fact, we are all mediators when we pray for one another. Christ alone can stand before the throne of God and obtain for us salvation and grace. However, what Christ gives to us, we can distribute to each other. Hence Paul says in Ephesians 4:29, “Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear.” So we can all impart grace to one another in a sense.
As for calling Jesus her “Savior”, I think there are different levels of meaning to it. First of all, she was a descendant of Adam, so she definitely required a savior. By a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. To be clear, this is not something Catholic theologians have simply reasoned to justify this doctrine. The viewpoint that she was preserved from sin at the moment of conception in advance by the merits of her Son is actually a fundamental aspect of Catholic theology. So Jesus was her Savior. Take this analogy: imagine if a man were to fall into a deep pit, and someone were to reach down to pull him out. This man has been “saved” from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: insofar as she was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. Even Jude 24-25 seems to support this is a kind of salvation: “Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing, to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever. Amen.”
Aside from this, it is probable that Mary was speaking a large part in regards to dangers found in this life. After all, “He has shown strength with his arm, he has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts, he has put down the mighty from their thrones, and exalted those of low degree; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent empty away.” Her song actually parallels Hannah’s in 1 Samuel 2, which says many similar things. Hannah is thanking God for having given her a son.
The doctrine to which you are referring is soul-sleep. Catholics believe she was assumed into heaven, similar to Enoch and Elijah and possibly (as some have theorized) Moses. Nevertheless, that argument could be used for the other saints to whom Catholics pray. Also… I just realized—you’re Seventh-day Adventist, correct?
About the soul-sleep passages, I think they are best explained by phenomenological language, often using the metaphor of sleep. Because dead people look like they are sleeping, especially when lying on their deathbeds (and notice that people often die on beds), the Bible often uses “sleep” as a euphemism for “death.” This euphemism is still sometimes used nowadays. Besides, I think there are parts of the Bible that seem inconsistent with this. For instance, there is Revelation 6:9-10, which states, “When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?’” Here John sees the disembodied souls of early Christian martyrs. The fact they are disembodied is known because they have been slain. Thus disembodied souls exist and seem to be conscious. In Revelation 20:4 John sees these souls again: “Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God and who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” Here again we see disembodied souls who were beheaded. John sees them as they are coming to life to reign with Christ, hence they are in a pre-resurrection state. Both of these seem to suggest disembodied souls are conscious.
As for repetitive prayers… first of all, this does not relate directly to the Marian doctrines. Another common Catholic devotion is the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. It is directed almost exclusively at God the Father yet probably more repetitive than the rosary. However, I assume you are quoting the King James Version. Other versions, such as, for example, the Revised Standard Version, says, “empty phrases”. The Greek seems to support that. The Greek word is battalogēsēte, which usually suggests, “to chatter”, “to be long-winded” or “to utter empty words”, which does not suggest a condemnation of all repetition. The Gentiles recited prayers only to appease their gods. Hence they were uttering “empty phrases” having nothing to do with expressing one’s love for and trust in God. They simply said the words and went about their day. We even see Jesus being repetitious in His own words, one example being Mark 14:39. Jesus was on earth to set an example for us to follow, so if He repeats Himself in prayer, we can.
Fair. My point was that the title of your article isn’t technically speaking accurate.
As for Luke 11:27-28, I would disagree with your interpretation on a couple of levels. First of all, concerning calling Mary “blessed”, she is called blessed many times in Luke 1. As soon as Elizabeth sees her, she declares, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.” (Luke 1:42-45) Later, Mary declares, “For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.” In other words, we are all called to call her blessed.
So, why did Jesus respond as he did to the woman who praised her? Obviously, He can’t have meant that she was not blessed, because Luke 1 says she was. Nevertheless, he says, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” This actually confirms what Elizabeth said in Luke 1:45, “And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.” So Mary was more blessed for having heard the Word of God and kept it than having been the vessel of God in her body.
Also, this got long very quickly, so congratulations at getting through it.
Thank you for your patience 🙂
Yes, statues were erected in the Sanctuary and Temple, but you do not see the people of God bowing before them. When the High Priest went in the holiest place once per year, He went into the presence of God Himself as He sat upon the mercy seat, but the High Priest did not bow before statues. As you stated, there is no problem with having pictures of friends or family upon your wall … so long as you are not bowing to them or praying to those people. When God says, “bow down and serve”, please understand that at the core of the definition of worship you see that it simply means “who you choose to listen to/follow”. In other words, who you choose to obey.
Romans 6:16 “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?”
But notice what is written a few verses later …
Romans 6:19 “I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.”
Yielding ourselves over to those things which guide us toward unBiblical doctrines and beliefs is worship. Yielding to doctrines and commandments of men is showing worship to men. Choosing to bow before statues and pray to those created beings is an act of worship by Biblical standards. It is not the God of the Bible who said it is a sanctified thing to pray to anyone but Him … man said that. Man is the one who said that is okay, not God. And there are a multitude of verses and passages to confirm that as truth.
As for the idea that statues direct our attention to those whom the statues symbolize, this statement does not make total sense. Many of the old statues in the Vatican were originally statues of Mars, Jupiter, and other pagan gods. By the statement you gave, then I agree … attention is given to the demons who inspired those statues. Regardless, even if a statue is of Jesus, no Christian needs help from a statue or any other object to direct our hearts toward God. Rather, it is the presence of God in the truly converted heart that directs our attention. To the true convert, physical object are useless as they do nothing to drive us closer to God.
Deuteronomy 12:32 “What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.”
Revelation 22:18-19 “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
The 2nd Commandment has, in fact, been removed from Catholic Bibles and many Lutheran Bibles. To say “it has to be shortened” is to disagree with what the Lord commanded in the verses above. Who is man that he should think to alter the Commandments of God? Even if it were a legitimate thing to do to “shorten” what was said in the 10 Commandments, the total elimination of one of those Commandments is absurd.
And when it comes to Commandment #10 being split apart under the pretense that there is a separation between coveting your neighbor’s wife and your neighbor’s goods is to miss the meaning behind the Commandment. The idea behind Commandment #10 is coveting/envying. From the smallest things (your neighbor’s material goods) to the larger and more meaningful things (your neighbor’s wife), coveting of what belongs to your neighbor is the entire point of the Commandment. Regardless of what is coveted, the problem of the heart is discontentment … and that is why this Commandment cannot be separated. To separate it is to miss the point.
Philippians 4:11 “Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.”
1 Timothy 6:8 “And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.”
Again, the point of the 10th Commandment is to not covet anything anyone else has … which is precisely why this Commandment ends with, “nor ANY THING that is thy neighbour’s.”
There are instances in the Bible where bowing was a sign of respect and servitude, yes, but I caution against using other cultures who know not God as examples to use in support of Biblical things. There is a massive difference between bowing in servitude and bowing in worship. For example …
John 13:5 “After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.”
Jesus bowed to wash the feet of His disciples. He gave us this example of servitude and humility so that we could have an eternal example of selflessness.
John 13:13-15 “Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.”
Though He bowed, it was not in the form of worship. By contrast, take the prayers which are directed to Mary. Though we are clearly instructed to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ, the insistence of the Catholic Church is to go ahead and pray to Mary, a dead and buried human being who is awaiting the first resurrection.
A simple Google search will provide countless pictures of Catholics kissing the hands of the pope, kissing the feet of statues, bowing before and praying to statues, and priest laying prostrate before the pope. All these things are wildly different from simple servitude in that they openly display worship toward religious figures.
And with the exception of Enoch, Elijah, Moses, and the 24 elders, no other human is in Heaven. The Scriptures are plain on this subject.
1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”
Yes, the definition you use for the word “heis” is correct. However, it is reading too far into it to say that it does not denote something exclusive. The context of the verse provides the verse itself declares it is exclusively Jesus Christ alone who is the mediator between God and man. It then goes further to confirm that this “one” is only speaking of Jesus Christ.
1 Timothy 2:5-6 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
Imparting grace is, of course, something we can all give do for each other. But it takes on a whole new meaning when it comes to God. Not to mention that there is a difference between common grace and saving grace. Yes, we can and should edify one another with truth as it is written in the Bible without adding to or taking away from it. And just because we can show the grace of God toward each other is not justification for the manmade belief that Mary is co-redeemer.
Especially when in consideration of the fact that the word “redeemer” is used in the singular sense. Moreover, the word “redeemer” is associated with God alone. Make special note that in the later verses of Isaiah and Jeremiah, “redeemer” is capitalized; it is one of the names of Jesus Christ. Redemption of sin was purchased by the blood of Jesus Christ and only He, in His utter perfection and sinlessness could be the propitiation for our sins. Mary, a mere human being, could never be co-redeemer if, for any other reason, than that she did nothing to meet the requirements of redemption for the sins of mankind.
Job 19:25 “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:”
Psalm 19:14 “Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.”
Psalm 78:35 “And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.”
Proverbs 23:11 “For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.”
Isaiah 41:14 “Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.”
Isaiah 43:14 “Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.”
Isaiah 44:6 “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.”
Isaiah 44:24 “Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;”
Isaiah 47:4 “As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.”
Isaiah 48:17 “Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.”
Isaiah 49:7 “Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.”
Isaiah 49:26 “And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.”
Isaiah 54:5 “For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.”
Isaiah 54:8 “In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.”
Isaiah 59:20 “And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.”
Isaiah 60:16 “Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.”
Isaiah 63:16 “Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.”
Jeremiah 50:34 “Their Redeemer is strong; the LORD of hosts is his name: he shall throughly plead their cause, that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon.”
Where is the prophecy of Mary being co-redeemer with Jesus Christ? It is said that God will do nothing without it first being spoken by His prophets.
Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”
I agree that the doctrine of Mary being preserved from sin from the moment of conception in advance by the merits of her Son is a fundamental aspect of Catholic theology. That said, it is not a Biblically sound doctrine and runs contrary to a multitude of Biblical truths.
That is a wonderful analogy which does lend credence to this Vatican inspired doctrine, but it still does nothing for proper Biblical understanding. From Genesis to Revelation, there is simply nothing about Mary being sinless.
Jude 24-25 “Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.”
Jude is simply speaking of Jesus Christ … he confirms this in verse 25 which gives the context. The fact of the matter is that ALL have sinned, including Mary.
Romans 3:23-24 “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:”
Again, redemption is through Christ alone … not through Jesus and Mary.
1 John 1:10 “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
The same goes for if we declare anyone but Jesus Christ to be sinless.
1 John 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
Did you notice what John said there? If we sin, our advocate with the Father is Jesus Christ … not Jesus Christ and Mary. Also notice that it is written that Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. It very clearly does not say that He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, except Mary.
Yes, Catholics believe she was assumed into Heaven, but there is no Biblical proof of that. The only proof we are given is that she is asleep in the grave like the rest of everyone else except for Enoch, Elijah, Moses, and the 24 elders. Everything else is just assumption and speculation without evidence. It is belief without a Biblical foundation. In the multitude of verses and passages (kept in the original context), it is quite clear that every dead person is “asleep” and awaiting their part in either the first or second resurrection.
No, I am not an SDA. I am part of the Seventh Day Remnant Movement. I am of the church which prophecy declares will do the final work in the end. An SDR not only keeps the Law, but understands prophecy … NO other church does this today.
Firstly, prophetic language is symbolic in nature and must be understood through the definitions laid out elsewhere in the Bible.
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 “Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
Spiritual matters are spiritually discerned. We cannot attempt to understand a spiritual thing in a literal way. Since prophecy is written in a prophetic language, the symbols must first be interpreted using Scripture alone.
John was in vision when he saw the things written in Revelation. Therefore, each aspect of the vision must be understood as a vision. In the same way that parables are not meant to be understood literally, but rather they are meant to convey a message using language that helps to push the message across.
To that end, Revelation 6:9-10 is speaking of the time period when the Roman Catholic Vatican tortured and murdered real Christians by the hundreds of millions. That was during the time of the 5th seal. The 6th seal was during the 1700’s up to the mid 1800’s. We are currently living in the time period between verses 13 and 14. For a deeper breakdown of all this, please go to this link … https://remnantofgod.org/getready.htm
So, no, the verses you bring up cannot be used to support the doctrine of immediate life after death because those verses are being used out of context and out of the spiritual understanding that is needed to comprehend prophetic language.
The Greek word is “battologeo”. See the following …
From Βάττος Battos (a proverbial stammerer) and G3056; to stutter, that is, (by implication) TO PRATE TEDIOUSLY: – USE VAIN REPETITIONS.
But if we go a bit further and use the Thayer’s definition, we see the following …
1. To stammer
2. To repeat the same things over and over, to use many idle words, to babble, prate. Some suppose the word derived from Battus, a king of Cyrene, who is said to have stuttered; others from Battus, an author of tedious and wordy poems.
The “repetitious” prayers of Jesus were not repetitious in the sense of the Rosary, the Lord’s prayer, or any other canned and repetitious prayers but were in line with the parable He gave regarding persistence in prayer.
Luke 18:1-8 “And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?”
It is commonly said that Jesus taught us to use repetitious prayers because of the so-called “Lord’s prayer”. Jesus was teaching us the structure of prayer, not how to violate what He just said a few verses previously when He declared to not use repetitious prayers. If you would like to see an example of how Jesus actually prayed, read John 17 … He followed His own instructions from Matthew 6.
Well, yeah, she certainly is blessed. But it should stop there. What Roman Catholicism has done is elevate her to an equal level with God. Yes, she certainly was blessed, but that does not mean statues and altars should be built to her. Nor does it mean that prayers should be written to her or given to her.
Agreed … Mary is one of billions throughout the millennia who have been blessed to be given a faithful and obedient heart. Jesus had to tell the woman that everyone who lives in obedience to the Word of God is blessed because the woman was attempting to artificially elevate Mary to a level that no human being deserves to be on.
No one denies that Mary was blessed. But no Bible believer who trusts in the Word of God would ever say that Mary or anyone else ought to be propelled into a place of worship as she has been in the Roman Catholic world. Again, not a single verse (kept in context) can confirm that Mary is on the level the Vatican claims.
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This comment is… long. There is a lot to cover. Nevertheless, I can do my best, and hopefully make it concise as possible.
Maybe, although David danced before the Ark of the Covenant, which is still an inanimate object. But if you do define worship as to “choose to obey”, Catholics definitely do not worship statues. Statues to not have commands to be obeyed, considering that they are just hunks of wood, metal, or stone for the most part.
First of all, about old statues of Roman gods, to the best of my knowledge, no one bows before them as part of any “Catholic” ritual. The Vatican is an ancient area in Rome. Of course there are old pagan statues still standing. I don’t know if you are saying that all those statues ought to be destroyed if Rome is repopulated with Christians. Still, I think that is beside the point as to the purposes of statues regarding Christian figures.
I agree we do not need statues, but they are useful. We are physical creatures, made of both body and soul. Our senses still help us understand the things of God. You said you were writing sermons, so I suppose you are a pastor. Have you never made one sensory analogy? Or if you were explaining the things of God to a small child, at any rate, I imagine you would compare Him to things we can see or touch. But the crucifix which stands in almost every Catholic church and the figure of Christ crucified exists as a reminder of all Christ has suffered for us that we might be free. So yes, I would say images help us understand the things of God.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I said. If you don’t condense it, you don’t end up with ten commandments. You end up with fourteen (I think). But fourteen imperative sentences is not the same as fourteen commandments, when many could easily be grouped together. Also… about it being changed in Catholic bibles, if you actually look at a Catholic bible, you’ll find the actual text to be basically the same.
That is not the Catholic interpretation of that commandment. Matthew 5:28: “But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully [epithymēsai] has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” I have actually heard one man use this idea which you are proposing to justify sinning lustfully by eye or mind. I assume you agree that all forms of lust are a sin. So let us examine these verses.
In Romans 7:7, Paul says, “What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet, if it had not been for the law, I should not have known sin. I should not have known what it is to covet [epithymian] if the law had not said, ‘You shall not covet. [epithymēseis]’”
In both Matthew 5:28 and Romans 7:7, the Greek word for “covet” or “lust” stems from the Greek ἐπιθυμία (epithumia). Matthew 5:28 condemns specifically lusting after a woman, while Romans 7:7 condemns covetousness in general. So yes, there is a difference between coveting a wife and coveting an ox. Also, as I said, they seem more divided in Deuteronomy.
You say, “Though He bowed, it was not in the form of worship. By contrast, take the prayers which are directed to Mary…” So bowing is completely beside the point. The fact that Catholics bow to the saints or to the Pope does not prove worship.
“And with the exception of Enoch, Elijah, Moses, and the 24 elders, no other human is in Heaven. The Scriptures are plain on this subject.” Why do you say this? Even if I were to grant the doctrine of soul-sleep for the sake of argument, does it say in Scripture that they were the only people assumed into heaven? According to Jesus’ parable, Abraham certainly seems to be conscious. Also, not to get off topic, but in your mind, who would you say the 24 elders were, exactly?
I think it does. Christ is obviously the primary mediator, through whom all mediation comes. But we are all called to pray for one another, as the Bible says many times, and yet this clearly does not negate Paul’s words to Timothy. This is what Catholics mean when they speak to Mary and the Saints.
I have two points: first, the phrase is “Co-Redemptrix”, not “Co-Redeemer”. It is feminine. Second, I think we are diverging from the original topic. We were discussing her role as advocate and as Mediatrix/Dispensatrix of Graces (many use the term “Mediatrix” but I prefer “Dispensatrix”, since I think it more clearly conveys what Catholics are actually trying to say). The doctrine of her role as Co-Redemptrix is different topic. I will, however, explain what we mean by that if you wish.
Obviously, Christ alone payed the price for sin. However, Christians can still save others in a secondary causal way. Paul says very clearly, “I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.” (1 Corinthians 9:22) So in Paul’s mind, Christians can save others. In that sense, anyone who brings Christ to those who do not know him can be called a “co-redeemer” with Christ in a secondary causal sense. So when Catholics call Mary “Co-Redemptrix”, they also mean in a secondary causal sense, but in the most universal way. Paul and the other apostles brought Jesus to various communities, but Mary brought the whole of Christ to the whole of the world, being the one chosen to be Mother of our God and Savior. I would note, however, that the Catholic Church hasn’t been using the term “Co-Redemptrix” as much lately out of the concern it might generate theological confusion.
As for Biblical prophecy, I think my above argument is stronger, but one good example would be Genesis 3:15, “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” Here we see a woman being at enmity with the serpent, but there is no apparent enmity if we are talking about Eve. But it speaks of a woman having a “seed”, suggesting a Virgin birth, since there is no man mentioned, as there would usually be elsewhere in Scripture. So yes, we do see an especial prophesied enmity between Mary and the Serpent.
My point in mentioning that she was preserved by Jesus Christ specifically as part of Catholic theology was that the Catholic Church teaches as dogma that Jesus was Mary’s Savior, so there is no contradiction there with the words of the Magnificat.
As for Bible verses which say all have sinned, notice that Romans 3:23-24 does not explicitly make an exception for Jesus Christ Himself. You would probably say that it points out that we are justified freely by Jesus Christ, but I imagine a heretic could just as well argue that this was speaking only of His Divine nature, rather than His human nature, while still not denying that we are redeemed through Christ. My point is that Christ, even in His humanity, never sinned. So I think Romans 3:23-24 should be seen as a generalization to an extent. The same could be said, I think, of Jude 24-25. In other words, since Jesus is both human and Divine, I think it is very difficult to see this as an absolute, since I believe many heretics in the past have claimed that Jesus could have sinned insofar as He was human while still being the Redeemer of mankind. I assume you do not believe this. Neither do I. However, if we read Romans 3:23-24 and Jude 24-25 in a purely literal sense, I think it is difficult not to say this. Aside from that, we know that children, or at least infants, cannot sin. Paul says plainly, “And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad.” (Romans 9:10-11) So the unborn are also apparently excepted from the rule that all have personally sinned, if that is your interpretation of Romans 3:23-24.
Catholics believe that Christ is our advocate with the Father. The advocacy with Christ which Mary and the Saints possess is very much secondary, more akin to James’ command to pray for one another (James 5:16).
“It very clearly does not say that He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, except Mary.” I wholeheartedly agree with that, but, as I already explained, the Catholic Church considers it dogma that Christ’s sacrifice saved Mary as well. If you are saying this means John is specifying personal sins committed by every specific individual in the world… well, this would mean that those children who died in utero were personal sinners. Christ saved those children as well, however, since He cleansed them of Original Sin, not personal actual sin.
Catholics do not adhere to Sola Scriptura, so we do not require biblical proof. I think you would, however, be hard pressed to find anywhere where Scripture contradicts the Assumption of Mary.
I see. I am not familiar with your movement, but very well. I agree that prophecies are not always literal. I seriously don’t know what you mean about the Catholic Church torturing millions of people. If you look through history, you won’t find many Sabbatarians until very recently. If you go back in history, you won’t really find anyone who believed in Sola Fide prior to Martin Luther. Besides, when things such as ecclesiastical trials such as the Inquisition existed, they were very lenient.
But be that as it may. You say that these martyrs were killed by the Catholic Church. I say these martyrs were killed, for the most part, by the Roman Empire. However, the fact remains that in heaven, we do still see them praying.
But maybe we should move away from Revelation since it is often difficult to interpret. Elsewhere, Paul says we are “surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses” (Hebrews 12:1) when speaking of those in heaven.
Interesting! Thank you for the history lesson.
So…? I’m confused where you are going with this? How is Christ allowed to use repetitious prayers if we are not? As pointed out, the word means specifically “vain repetitions”, as in the sense of prating tediously, which is not something Catholics are supposed to do. The rosary is a meditation on the life of Christ. I’m not sure how anything you pointed out condemns it. Also, I don’t see how John 17 contradicts anything I have said. Yes, Jesus is not repeating words here much, but as I said, he does so elsewhere—and it is definitely not because He did not believe God heard him the first time. Besides, as we both seem to agree, βαττολογέω does not refer to all repetition, but only such as is spoken vainly or emptily—as in, without putting one’s heart into it.
Catholics… do not elevate her to be equal to God. If you actually read the prayers addressed to Mary, if you actually read through what they say, they definitely do not come close to what you ought to say when addressing God Himself. Mary is infinitely less than God. And again, Catholics do not worship Mary. That would be idolatrous. As for the aforementioned woman, all she said was that Mary was “blessed”, which the Bible elsewhere confirms. So I can’t see how Jesus could be denigrating Mary, so much as saying she is far more blessed for hearing the Word of God and keeping it.
Also, one more note: the Vatican is a place in Rome, and technically an independent country which happens to be ruled by the Pope, so I don’t think it makes a whole lot of sense to speak of what the “Vatican” claims when talking about Catholic doctrine, so much as the Catholic Church.